“Closed mouths do not get fed"

Interviews & Essays - May 06, 2023

By Womaness Editors 9-Minute Read

Debbie Dickinson and daughters talk about openness for Womaness

Real talk is the focus here at Womaness—especially when it comes to how we share information woman to woman. That's why we're talking to moms and their daughters through Mother's Day about how they embrace open, candid communication about being a woman—because when we do, we break taboos…and ensure every phase of the experience gets better with each generation.

We're continuing this special series with Debbie Dickinson, Esq., a recent Womaness Woman who created the Thermaband Zone—a wearable thermostat wristband that uses tech to detect changes in your temperature in menopause—along with her daughter Markea. Here, we speak to Debbie and her adult daughters Markea and Averie about how their mother-daughter conversations have influenced each other over the years.

AN OPEN CONVERSATION WITH

Debbie Dickinson, Mother to Markea & Averie

Please share a memory of being truly open about something with your daughters. What did you learn from the experience? What do you hope they took away from it?

“So many things come to mind. I share a lot with my daughters with the hopes that transparency into the struggles I have faced as a woman, mother, wife, daughter, lawyer/entrepreneur will be helpful as they face similar challenges of their own in time. For example, I have been very open about the choices I made in raising my children relative to work—full time, part time, stay-at-home, then work from home as an entrepreneur. With every transition, my husband and I pursued whatever we believed was best for our family in each season, and modified accordingly, without succumbing to societal or extraneous pressures. Despite being highly educated with lots of employment opportunities and in the face of open criticism from perplexed onlookers, I was exactly where I wanted to be when they were younger—at home. It felt great to let them know that staying home was a choice. It also conveyed the implicit value of higher education, which they have both embraced. I want my daughters to feel similarly empowered when they have their own families. There is no wrong or right configuration. Decide what is best for your family at any juncture, and pursue it, without reservation.”

What’s the most important thing you’ve tried to teach Markea and Averie about a life well lived? What have you learned from them?

“I believe we all have a purpose in life and have raised my children in an environment where we openly discuss our faith and understanding of a Creator greater than ourselves. It has been gratifying to see them each develop their own faith and personal relationship with the Lord. As a parent, I believe that we are simply custodians of our children and are charged with the incredible privilege and responsibility of raising them to be independent, kind, compassionate, and intelligent adults. There is peace in knowing that as they stray from the nest and embark on their individual paths in life, they are never alone. My daughters have taught me not to worry and to trust that my husband and I have prepared them for the world, as best we could, and they know that we are always here for them. Our greatest joy is to watch them each soar as they pursue their dreams.”

What is the most important thing your daughters have taught you about self-care?

“My daughters both have beautiful curly hair and have mastered the craft of embracing and nourishing their natural hair which they both wear proudly as a crown of glory. In a society that historically has shunned kinky Afro-textured hair, I am overjoyed that they are unphased and instead have sought to promote the beauty in their natural coils. I learn from them which products and techniques to use for whichever styles I wish to wear as I also go au natural.”

What’s some advice you received as a girl that you tried to NOT pass along to your daughters?

“As a child, I developed a self-imposed standard of perfection. It’s not clear why it happened, or even when, but I suspect it was a survival mechanism I developed to navigate a world in which I recognized that people expected less of me, due to the color of my skin, so I needed to prove them wrong. I migrated to the US as an adolescent and realized fairly quickly that I was different—culture, race, accent, even my age, since—having started school early in Jamaica—I was at least two years younger than my classmates. The quest for perfection was not a result of advice, but more an instinct. Though it has in some ways served me well, it is an elusive and stressful goal. I was careful not to pass this standard and expectation on to my children. Rather than strive for perfection, I encouraged them to do their best and that it was OK to fail, because the courage it takes to try and the learnings from the journey are worth it. Failure is when we succumb to fear.”

"Menopause should not be a mystery, but instead understood and anticipated, like our first period."

What have you tried to teach Markea and Averie about skincare…and what have you learned from them?

“As the largest organ in our bodies, our skin needs attention daily—cleansing, exfoliation, moisturizing, sunblock—were a few lessons I tried to impart. In addition is the importance of hydration and sleep, especially as we age. Stress is another critical factor. I have learned from my daughters to incorporate more 'me time.' We enjoy spa days together, which are incredibly rejuvenating.”

What have you taught your daughters about your menopause experience?

“I was unprepared for perimenopause. I had not even heard the word before experiencing my first hot flash at 51. There was quite a steep learning curve and I recall how baffled and afraid I felt when I had no idea what was happening with my body. Menopause should not be a mystery, but instead understood and anticipated, like our first period. The flipside to menstruation is menopause as we learn about reproduction, yet women are often uninformed and many doctors are ill equipped and unhelpful.

My mom passed away in her early 50s, so I didn't have the opportunity to understand what she experienced in menopause. I was determined to be very open with my daughters about my menopausal journey and they have been extraordinarily supportive. I am comforted and gratified to know that my daughters will feel informed, empowered, and connected with a community that cares about women’s health and wellness, not embarrassed, isolated, and confused as so many women have felt. In addition to starting a 'Multigenerational Sisterhood on Health, Wellness and Menopause' on Facebook, where we all connect with other women of various ages, I went one step further. I joined with scientists, engineers and menopausal experts and created the Thermaband Zone, a natural tech solution to provide immediate hot flash relief and key biometric insights for symptom management. It has been a joy to work with my daughters to create an innovative technological solution to elevate women’s health and menopause experience.”

What are your hopes for your daughters in the future?

“I am incredibly proud of them. They each are living happy, authentic, and meaningful lives while embracing their gifts and passions. Amidst the struggles of the day-to-day is the presence to understand that the joy is in the journey, not the destination, so it's important to celebrate the small moments along the way. It truly is a delight to see them carve their path in the world while surrounded by people who truly care about and support them. I want them to continue living fearlessly, while in pursuit of their hearts’ desires, recognizing there are limitless possibilities, as they build their families and create their own legacies as empowering and empowered women poised to make a difference in this world.”

AN OPEN CONVERSATION WITH

Markea Dickinson-Frasier, Daughter of Debbie

Please share a memory of being truly open about something with your mom. How did it feel? What did you learn from the experience?

“I remember our conversations about periods—and her making me feel so comfortable during a time when there were so many rumors and myths around the process. I remember her preparing me in advance and letting me know what to expect. I felt so prepared when my menstrual cycle finally came, and felt like I could educate my friends on what to expect. I learned the importance of being proactive about these types of conversations, especially the ones that can be seen as taboo. If I don’t teach my children about these life stages, someone else will.”

What’s the most important life advice you’ve learned from your mom?

“This is such a hard question! So many gems. I’d say the most important life advice I’ve learned that is most applicable now is to not let societal pressures pressure me into doing things—like bearing children, getting married, obtaining certain esteemed jobs, etc. She taught me to move at my own pace and lean on God’s direction, discerning His voice in all decisions.”

What have you learned from your mom about being a woman? What do you think you have taught her?

“I’ve learned to stand in my truth—and always be true to myself. I think I’ve taught her not to be so hard on herself, and to give herself grace more often.”

What is the most important thing your mom has taught you about self-care?

“My mom has taught me that self-care isn’t a 'nice to have' or a fad, it’s a necessity. She taught me that I can’t pour from an empty cup, and it’s important to set a foundation of taking care of myself mentally, emotionally, relationally, physically, and spiritually (MERPS).”

"I learned the importance of being proactive about these types of conversations, especially the ones that can be seen as taboo."

What have you learned from your mom about skincare? What have you taught her?

“I’ve learned to be gentle with my skin, especially with things like applying lotion and face wash—always doing so in an upward direction. I’m very rough with everything in life normally and she always takes the time to provide friendly reminders of the importance of being gentle with my skin. I think I’ve taught her to embrace scars, bruises and blemishes more. I think her generation was taught to view these as things to 'fix' and hide, whereas my generation boldly embraces them as things that make us unique.”

Has your mom been open with you about her menopause or perimenopause experience? What have you learned?

“Yes! Very open. I’ve learned that menopause is a natural life stage that happens to every woman, and that there is so much stigma and shame around the topic from a society perspective—which is shifting as more women in power normalize the conversation. In terms of her experience specifically, I know she started having hot flashes at 51 during perimenopause, and she’s struggling to find the right physician to help cope with symptoms—which makes sense considering that only 20% of OBGYNs are trained in menopause.”

What are your hopes for your mom in the future?

“I hope my mom continues to reap the rewards of a life well lived; a life of purpose, servant leadership, passion, and sacrifice.”

AN OPEN CONVERSATION WITH

Averie Dickinson, Daughter of Debbie

Please share a memory of being truly open about something with your mom. What did you learn from the experience?

“One memory I can remember going to my mother about is talking about embracing my natural curly hair and loving myself for me. I remember being in elementary and middle school, dealing with bullies at school and coming to my mom feeling really beat down and embarrassed. My mom immediately told me to look at myself in the mirror and remind myself that I am beautiful, my curls are beautiful, I was worthy and perfect the way I am. I still hold onto many parts of that experience because there are many things I can look at within myself and see flaws in, but my mom taught me to love myself, wholeheartedly.”

What’s the most important life advice you’ve learned from your mom?

“One great piece of advice I learned from my mom is to speak up for what I believe is right and for what I want in life. I have such fond memories of my mom always advocating for her family, her values, wants and needs. I have learned that closed mouths do not get fed, so it is important for me to embrace what is important to me and speak up!”

What have you learned from your mom about being a woman? What do you think you have taught her?

“My mom has taught me how to be unapologetically me. Growing up as one of the few minorities in my school, my mom has always taught me to never damper my personality, my light, my joy to make others feel more comfortable. I am so proud of the woman that I am, and the woman that I am nurturing and growing into. I think I have taught my mom to continue to laugh and enjoy all aspects of life more. My mom is such a strong and powerful woman and I’d like to think I’ve helped to teach her to enjoy the fruits of her labor and 'live a little'”!

"I have learned that closed mouths do not get fed, so it is important for me to embrace what is important to me and speak up!”

What is the most important thing your mom has taught you about self-care?

“My mom has really taught me that self-care comes in many ways. As I was growing up, my mom always made time in her hectic days to cook healthy meals, teaching us how to cook healthy and yummy meals, spending time praying and reading the Bible, getting massages and saying self-love mantras to ourselves. I really practice self-care now by uplifting myself inside and out.”

What have you learned from your mom about skincare? What have you taught her?

“I still have memories of being a child and my mom harping on me to ‘be gentle’ while washing and moisturizing my skin! I didn’t realize at the time but taking the time to love on our skin, rub gently, rub my skin upwards, and use sensitive skin products has really changed my relationship with my skin and loving the skin I am in! I have taught my mom that imperfections are beautiful, even as she ages and new blemishes or wrinkles form—embrace them!”

Has your mom been open with you about her menopause or perimenopause experience? What have you learned?

“I am so grateful to have a mother who was so comfortable being open about the growth and changes of women's bodies and what to expect in the future. As a child, that was in the form of conversations about periods, and now as a grown woman, that is open conversations about menopause and perimenopause. I have learned that this part of being a woman is hard, but it is also so liberating and empowering to have the knowledge of what is to come, thanks to my mom. Having a mother like mine who never shies away from those hard conversations, but instead talks about them and even starts a company with my sister that embodies women empowerment and making a solution to the perimenopausal hot flashes is incredible!”

What are your hopes for your mom in the future?

“I hope that my mother continues to be the beautiful, bold unicorn that I have always looked up to. I have no doubt that she will and I am looking forward to continuing being her biggest fan.”